HomeHome  PortalPortal  GalleryGallery  FAQFAQ  SearchSearch  RegisterRegister  MemberlistMemberlist  UsergroupsUsergroups  Log inLog in  

Share | 
 

 The quality of a champion

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
pearlyriver
Triple Axel
Triple Axel
avatar

Posts : 886
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Hanoi, Vietnam

PostSubject: The quality of a champion   Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:40 am

I watched artistic gym at the Olympics 04 and the more I watch the more I'm puzzled by the determinants of a champion. I feel that there were many gymnasts of very high calibre who could have become more massive had they persisted longer or changing their mentality. Daniela Sofronie, Alexandra Eremia, Zhang Nan, Li Ya, Anna Pavlova and Katya (although she was only in 00 Olympics). It's sad to see them quit gym at young age (injuries, lack of motivation, declining form) or get few recognition (Anna is still competing, but she probably will never be named for the national team again).

Clearly outstanding skills and years of training are not enough. Not counting luck, you don't automatically deserve something until you really earn it, especially overcome your own self. Performance-based sports like gym and figure skating are often filled with controversies, but most of the time I think that a particular gymnast is crowned the champion for a reason. Watching Catalina Ponor in Athens made me appreciate her comeback even more. She doesn't have fabulous acrobatic skills as Carly Patterson or Aly Raisman, but she is well-rounded, a complete package and she's able to sell her routines to the judges, hit every move with precision and put her nerves under control. Looking back at London, I think Aliya and Gabby are the only 2 gymnasts with champion quality.

What factor do you think makes one a champion? And hopefully to make the thread more exciting, which is the most undeserving win in AG at Olympics?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zarinaballerina
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan


Posts : 3545
Join date : 2011-04-29

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Wed Oct 31, 2012 10:21 am

This is a very interesting topic.

I agree with you about Catalina, she and Daniela Sofronie were my two favourites from 04 squad. The only problem I had with her was her ugly form on twists.

I adore Aliya, if she hadn't blown up her knee on vault, I think it's safe to say, that she'd be AA Olympic champion. She has everything, great skills, charisma, nerves of steel, IMO, she has that something special, that just captivates you. Everytime I see her on TV, I can't take my eyes off her, even when she's not competing. She's called a diva (in the best way possible) for a reason. Yep! As for Gabby, IMO, the true 2012 AA champion is Vika Komova, Gabby was gifted and Vika screwed.
After Gabby won the AA title, the pressure on her increased and she failed to win any medals in event finals, so i'm not sure how mentally strong she is. I'm not saying she was competing in the AA pressure free, but the one who was supposed to be the major threat for the Russians was Jordyn who failed to qualify.

For me, the most undeserving win was in mens AA at 2004 olympics. On vault, Paul Hamm practically fell on the judges and still they rewarded him with the AA gold?! Suspect Disappointed The Japanese gymnast (I forgot his name) was royally screwed.

Back to top Go down
View user profile
swan
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 422
Join date : 2010-10-22

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:17 am

zarinaballerina wrote:
This is a very interesting topic.

I agree with you about Catalina, she and Daniela Sofronie were my two favourites from 04 squad. The only problem I had with her was her ugly form on twists.

I adore Aliya, if she hadn't blown up her knee on vault, I think it's safe to say, that she'd be AA Olympic champion. She has everything, great skills, charisma, nerves of steel, IMO, she has that something special, that just captivates you. Everytime I see her on TV, I can't take my eyes off her, even when she's not competing. She's called a diva (in the best way possible) for a reason. Yep! As for Gabby, IMO, the true 2012 AA champion is Vika Komova, Gabby was gifted and Vika screwed.
After Gabby won the AA title, the pressure on her increased and she failed to win any medals in event finals, so i'm not sure how mentally strong she is. I'm not saying she was competing in the AA pressure free, but the one who was supposed to be the major threat for the Russians was Jordyn who failed to qualify.

For me, the most undeserving win was in mens AA at 2004 olympics. On vault, Paul Hamm practically fell on the judges and still they rewarded him with the AA gold?! Suspect Disappointed The Japanese gymnast (I forgot his name) was royally screwed.


quite possibly THE most controversial all-around men's title ever in the history of artistic gymnastics happened in 2004. to be precise, the gymnast in question was yang tae-young of south korea and he was not japanese. when paul hamm's sponsors found out that he controversially won gold and that he actually wasn't supposed to have that gold medal, sponsors dropped him (he was taken off of those cereal boxes). if anyone wants details, the reason why paul hamm won was because judges miscalculated the start value of one of yang tae-young's routines. it was actually supposed to be higher than what was rewarded. i wonder what yang tae-young thought when paul hamm got in trouble with attacking a taxi driver while drunk earlier this year. Laugh

yes, catalina ponor is a real champion. i don't know what happened to her during the balance beam finals this year, but it was a pity. she usually hits and when she hits, the woman is ON FIRE. glad to know that she isn't retiring as of yet. she's considered a grandma competing at her age, but i believe she's become a much more beautiful gymnast since 2004. sure, her triple twist is something to cringe at, but i let it go. i hope she gets a gold on floor exercise next world championships to make up for the silver and medal on balance beam to make up for her fourth place finish.

as for aly raisman, i'm not really sure if i can call her a real champion as of yet. she's grossly overscored all over the place. in the all around, i don't know how she even scored in the 14's (she should've scored in the 12's). zero artistry zero form. but she definitely has an amazing attitude. she's friendly with gymnasts outside of the americans (aliya even stated this in one of her interviews after the olympics). i actually like her, but not for her gymnastics.

gabrielle douglas is most definitely NOT a real champion. not only is her all around gold medal fake as hell, her attitude is, too. i used to be fond of her personality. up until that controversial oprah interview. her comment about being the only black girl from her former gym (100% lie because she had black teammates and there were other black people attending the gym outside of her program) to set up her little story about being bullied was a completely hideous thing to do. now, i live in the same area that gabby came from, and the people from her former are not too pleased with the comments she made in that interview (you can clearly see that there are other black gymnasts and one was interviewed about how gabby's comments affected her negatively). in fact, they were furious and there were multiple local news segments about their frustrations. when she made the "only black girl" comment i was in complete shock when i first heard it because i knew it was a lie in the beginning and it sounded soooo fishy (there is a large percentage of black americans living in this area, and in certain parts, more than half of residents are black americans so i found it hard to believe she was the only black girl in her former gym). excalibur, her former gym, apparently sends more black american gymnasts to the national team than any other gym in america, or so i heard. i'm sure that there are other lies and sketchy comments from her and her mom in that oprah interview that can't be trusted but i won't get into that. unfortunately, liang chow, her coach, said that gabby "has not reached her full potential" yet and she will continue competing. i heard that she and her mom are going to change their residency to iowa so hopefully i will no longer see her listed "from virginia" in her competitions. good riddence. Disappointed before, i preferred gabby's gymnastics over jordyn's. but after gabby's desperate cry for attention, i hope that jordyn will be able to outdo gabby for next year's world championships qualifications. also, eventhough jordyn's "artistry" isn't really what i prefer to see in gymnastics, i do think she's more "artistic" than gabby is. hopefully jordyn's disappointment of not qualifying for the all around will fire her up for next year.

now, i'm not ready to call viktoria komova much of a champion herself. she has that "give up" attitude from time to time and just too many tears. unfortunately, the russian team doesn't hire sports psychologists, so i don't know if her mental problems will ever go away. interestingly, though, the reference judges actually listed vika as the gold medalist ahead of gabby by almost three tenths. also, vika competed with a broken toe (this may be the explanation of her vault in the all around). politics or not involved during the all around final? i'll let you all decide for yourselves because it was so hotly debated.

aliya, on the other hand, is quite the champion indeed. she's fiery and determined, mentally strong, balances difficulty and artistry, and is humble all in one. plus, she's not afraid to show her pesonality from time to time (none of those safe, predictable, non-articulate type of interviews, though i get this vibe from most of the russian gymnasts). it's amazing how she almost quit the sport when her former coach (dina kamalova) suddenly left to coach in the united states (i think she left to work at WOGA, which is nastia's parents' gym). the gymnasts in russia differ very much from the american gymnasts because they usually don't just get new coaches or change gyms. but fortunately for her, she has alexandrov. her injury made her decline in certain aspects but i believe in many other ways she become a much more stronger gymnast. the fact that no other gymnast ever was able to perform at a competitive, elite level post acl-injury the way aliya did speaks volumes. and after the recent fiasco of alexandrov losing his position as head coach of the women's russian artistic gymnastics, i really wondered what aliya went through. her teammates writing off her coach, not knowing if she will be able to stay with him (it's uncertain if he will be able to continue coaching her). amazingly, she made comments such as "i will get past this." i can't wait to watch her compete in december!

anna pavlova probably has the saddest career in artist gymnastics ever. extremely beautiful, close to perfect gymnastics (the switch-ring should be named the pavlova-ring) but hideous consistency. she performed and trained the mustafina vault before mustafina but she only landed it once in competition (which was not a world championship or olympics so it wasn't named after her). she was robbed of an all around bronze medal in 2004. nobody can imitate her 2008 performance on the floor final and especially vault final. she single-handedly cost the russians the team bronze medal. afterwards, she never fully recovered her previous difficulty. countless times she could've medaled in so many events. because of this, she is blacklisted in the russian gymnastics federation and is unlikely to ever make the national team again. i, along many others, believe she should consider competing for another country because of the depth of the russian gymnasts. ukraine, france, germany, italy? if she wants to be adventurous, maybe even canada?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
swan
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 422
Join date : 2010-10-22

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:34 am

pearlyriver wrote:
I watched artistic gym at the Olympics 04 and the more I watch the more I'm puzzled by the determinants of a champion. I feel that there were many gymnasts of very high calibre who could have become more massive had they persisted longer or changing their mentality. Daniela Sofronie, Alexandra Eremia, Zhang Nan, Li Ya, Anna Pavlova and Katya (although she was only in 00 Olympics). It's sad to see them quit gym at young age (injuries, lack of motivation, declining form) or get few recognition (Anna is still competing, but she probably will never be named for the national team again).

Clearly outstanding skills and years of training are not enough. Not counting luck, you don't automatically deserve something until you really earn it, especially overcome your own self. Performance-based sports like gym and figure skating are often filled with controversies, but most of the time I think that a particular gymnast is crowned the champion for a reason. Watching Catalina Ponor in Athens made me appreciate her comeback even more. She doesn't have fabulous acrobatic skills as Carly Patterson or Aly Raisman, but she is well-rounded, a complete package and she's able to sell her routines to the judges, hit every move with precision and put her nerves under control. Looking back at London, I think Aliya and Gabby are the only 2 gymnasts with champion quality.

What factor do you think makes one a champion? And hopefully to make the thread more exciting, which is the most undeserving win in AG at Olympics?


there are honestly too many for me to choose from. Laughing to start? yang yilin totally should've won gold on uneven bars during the 2008 olympics. he kexin and nastia had the benefit of being more promoted. i would even argue that beth tweddle should've been on that podium over nastia. i know that many of you will say "but, the chinese were underage and were undeserving of their medals!" however, there was no concrete, solid proof of them being underage. citing questionable websites is not proof. how do we know they were even real websites? now, i'm not saying that they were or weren't underage. i'm just saying there was no direct proof. it was all just physical discrimination and poor sportsmanship from team usa. it's not like any of the other countries requested an age investigation on the chinese. plus, there were many other gymnasts who looked "underage" from other countries but since they were not medal threats, team usa didn't care for them to get investigated. i get accused of being underage all the time, even if i show legal american documents (u.s. military id, passport, you name it, i've been rudely accused and questioned) just because i look younger than my actual age. Evil or Very Mad








Back to top Go down
View user profile
zarinaballerina
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan


Posts : 3545
Join date : 2011-04-29

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 6:40 am

swan wrote:


quite possibly THE most controversial all-around men's title ever in the history of artistic gymnastics happened in 2004. to be precise, the gymnast in question was yang tae-young of south korea and he was not japanese.

I agree, that was so unfair, I think Yang even took this to court, but it was ruled in the favour of the original result. I could be wrong though.
Embarassed at getting the gymnast nationality wrong, I wasn't a MAG fan back then.

swan wrote:
yes, catalina ponor is a real champion. i don't know what happened to her during the balance beam finals this year, but it was a pity. she usually hits and when she hits, the woman is ON FIRE. glad to know that she isn't retiring as of yet.

She's not retiring?! That's great news! There were rumours after London, that she wants to quit.

swan wrote:

gabrielle douglas is most definitely NOT a real champion. not only is her all around gold medal fake as hell, her attitude is, too. i used to be fond of her personality. up until that controversial oprah interview. her comment about being the only black girl from her former gym (100% lie because she had black teammates and there were other black people attending the gym outside of her program) to set up her little story about being bullied was a completely hideous thing to do. now, i live in the same area that gabby came from, and the people from her former are not too pleased with the comments she made in that interview (you can clearly see that there are other black gymnasts and one was interviewed about how gabby's comments affected her negatively). in fact, they were furious and there were multiple local news segments about their frustrations. before, i preferred gabby's gymnastics over jordyn's. but after gabby's desperate cry for attention, i hope that jordyn will be able to outdo gabby for next year's world championships qualifications. also, eventhough jordyn's "artistry" isn't really what i prefer to see in gymnastics, i do think she's more "artistic" than gabby is. hopefully jordyn's disappointment of not qualifying for the all around will fire her up for next year.

I nearly fell out of my chair when I saw that interview. Seriously?! You're a freaking (undeservingly IMO) AA champion, enjoy the spot light, why do you have to make up stories? And not just any stories, lying about something as serious as racism isn't cool. Evil or Very Mad Disappointed I'm glad there was a media (even if only local) response to this.
About Jordyn, I wish she'd leave her current coach, he was ridiculous in London, 16-17 year old gymnasts were more mature and were comporting themselves better than this childish man. Rolling Eyes

swan wrote:
now, i'm not ready to call viktoria komova much of a champion herself. she has that "give up" attitude from time to time and just too many tears. politics or not involved during the all around final? i'll let you all decide for yourselves because it was so hotly debated.

I honestly wanted to reach through my TV and slap her. So you made a mistake, big deal, put it behind you and FIGHT!!! It's not easy to be her fan. LOL, who said there's no politics in AA? Just look at the result, it says it all.

swan wrote:
and after the recent fiasco of alexandrov losing his position as head coach of the women's russian artistic gymnastics, i really wondered what aliya went through. her teammates writing off her coach, not knowing if she will be able to stay with him (it's uncertain if he will be able to continue coaching her). amazingly, she made comments such as "i will get past this." i can't wait to watch her compete in december!
Seriously, the Rodionenkos need to go, and Grishina's coach needs to shut up and actually put his energy in preparing her for competitions. She wasn't good in London, scared to death and refusing to compete on beam in TF?!
Aliya isn't competing in december, according to her former official (now unofficial- apparently another Rodionenko mess) Aliya mustafina online site. The new head coach doesn't think the gymnasts are ready. And according to the same site Alexandrov will remain as her personal coach. cheers

swan wrote:
however, there was no concrete, solid proof of them being underage. citing questionable websites is not proof. how do we know they were even real websites? now, i'm not saying that they were or weren't underage. i'm just saying there was no direct proof. it was all just physical discrimination and poor sportsmanship from team usa. it's not like any of the other countries requested an age investigation on the chinese.

USA apparently has problems admiting that someone else might be just as good if not even better than them. One of the coaches of the USA swimming team accused a 16 year old chinese swimming protege (she won 2 golds) of doping, though her doping results were negative. Apparently it's impossible to swim one length faster than Lochte, well flash news to you, it apparently is, since she wasn't the only one who was faster than Lochte in her final length, one of the americans was as well. But guess what, there was no outcry for her being on doping. Rolling Eyes And Americans are wondering why no one likes them?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
swan
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 422
Join date : 2010-10-22

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:23 am

i blame grishina's unpreparedness on her personal coach. grishina trained separately from the rest of the team. many of the russians are blaming alexandrov for their injuries. now, there is no way for any of us to validate or invalidate that because of alexandrov's management the girls suffered more injuries. however, i WILL say that under his management, russia went from no olympic medals to the most olympic medals out of any team, even beating out the americans. now that the girls are under grebenkin's (former uneven bars coach) management, i hope that the russians will somehow continue their success. at least i know that they will continue to be good at uneven bars.

also, there's no way of validating or invalidating gabby's stories of racism and bullying. but what i do know is that she was definitely not the only black girl at that gym. that fact alone makes me question her and her mom's character. i mean, really, why would she say that she's the only black girl? why else other than the attention. the parents of the students at excalibur claim that gabby is a liar and that she's so full of shit (supposedly amongst the excalibur girls who helped chalk the uneven bars was called "the slave" and not just gabby was called "the slave"). after that oprah interview, the excalibur facebook page was wild with anger.

aliya is competing in december according to an article posted by a user at a gymnastics forum.

http://rsport.ru/artist_gym/20121027/626173554.html
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Alokya
Triple Axel
Triple Axel


Posts : 892
Join date : 2010-12-25

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 10:29 am

Quote :
USA apparently has problems admiting that someone else might be just as good if not even better than them.

Coming from the US myself - you are absolutely correct. There is this arrogance in many popular US sports - and everything else concerning the US - that "'muricans are the best and furners are not as good as us!" Sorry for the slang, I just had to. This is why I am kind of happy that the US is no longer a powerhouse in figure skating because the same thing happened back when Hamilton, Flemming, Boitano, etc. were competing. Michelle Kwan did a pretty good job of saying - no, there are better people than me, now shut up - thank goodness, otherwise it would have continued through her career. Think of Evan Lysacek's win in 2010 as well. But yeah, a lot of Americans think it is "patriotic" to say that our health care is the best, our education is the best, our sports are the best, blah blah blah. News flash, Americans.... we aren't the best at most things! Yeah - our country needs to get that attitude out of its head. Sorry for my little rant - it royally ticks me off.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
swan
Triple Flip
Triple Flip
avatar

Posts : 422
Join date : 2010-10-22

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:01 pm

unfortunately, i wonder if a majority of americans even know that michelle kwan is an american. asian-americans are stereotyped as "perpetual foreigners." michelle has all the qualities of a champion, including humility, but many americans don't want to accept her as an american.

americans are stereotyped as being arrogant and ignorant for a reason. i mean, look at who represents americans at a world stage. take serena williams and andy roddick (recently retired, though). i know that every elite tennis player had run-ins with the umpire, but the way andy, serena, and john mcenroe display themselves is really something else. i'm not saying that because of the amount of wins, you're allowed to be arrogant. but andy roddick only won one grand slam and he acts like he's the most decorated player of all time! his cockiness is ungrounded. come on now, you're representing a country! there's no need for this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff6_UTPDO9s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSjHuN6xY5w

as for serena, i'm surprised that she isn't banned from the us open. well, at the same time, i'm not surprised.

i will admit, watching serena and andy blow up both off and on the court is entertaining and hilarious. but i will gladly trade comedy for humility and decency. as an american citizen, it annoys me that many americans on the world stage don't defy the american stereotypes of arrogance and ignorance!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
zarinaballerina
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan


Posts : 3545
Join date : 2011-04-29

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 12:09 pm

swan wrote:
i blame grishina's unpreparedness on her personal coach. grishina trained separately from the rest of the team. many of the russians are blaming alexandrov for their injuries. now, there is no way for any of us to validate or invalidate that because of alexandrov's management the girls suffered more injuries. however, i WILL say that under his management, russia went from no olympic medals to the most olympic medals out of any team, even beating out the americans. now that the girls are under grebenkin's (former uneven bars coach) management, i hope that the russians will somehow continue their success. at least i know that they will continue to be good at uneven bars.

also, there's no way of validating or invalidating gabby's stories of racism and bullying. but what i do know is that she was definitely not the only black girl at that gym. that fact alone makes me question her and her mom's character. i mean, really, why would she say that she's the only black girl? why else other than the attention. the parents of the students at excalibur claim that gabby is a liar and that she's so full of shit (supposedly amongst the excalibur girls who helped chalk the uneven bars was called "the slave" and not just gabby was called "the slave"). after that oprah interview, the excalibur facebook page was wild with anger.

aliya is competing in december according to an article posted by a user at a gymnastics forum.

http://rsport.ru/artist_gym/20121027/626173554.html

Also IMO, Rodionenko is to blame for Grishina's unpreparedness, since he (or his wife) allowed them to train separately. I agree, we can't validate anything, since we weren't (aren't) present at their training, but it's going to be interesting how gymnasts health is going to be under new head coach and even more importantly, how the gymnasts will fare in competition. I think Aliya is going to be fine as long as she trains with Alexandrov. I hope she'll be kicking some serious butt and establish herself as one of the best AA gymansts again.
Aliya competing in december is great news. I can't wait to see how she'll do. cheers

About Gabby situation: IMO no one should be called a slave in any context. It's degrading and disrespectful. I (still) can't believe she and her mom were lying on Oprah, I mean what did they think ,that no one will retaliate?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
roma
Dedicated Mao Fan
Dedicated Mao Fan
avatar

Posts : 1810
Join date : 2009-05-07
Location : la-la-land

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:48 pm

Alokya wrote:
Quote :
USA apparently has problems admiting that someone else might be just as good if not even better than them.

Coming from the US myself - you are absolutely correct. There is this arrogance in many popular US sports - and everything else concerning the US - that "'muricans are the best and furners are not as good as us!" Sorry for the slang, I just had to. This is why I am kind of happy that the US is no longer a powerhouse in figure skating because the same thing happened back when Hamilton, Flemming, Boitano, etc. were competing. Michelle Kwan did a pretty good job of saying - no, there are better people than me, now shut up - thank goodness, otherwise it would have continued through her career. Think of Evan Lysacek's win in 2010 as well. But yeah, a lot of Americans think it is "patriotic" to say that our health care is the best, our education is the best, our sports are the best, blah blah blah. News flash, Americans.... we aren't the best at most things! Yeah - our country needs to get that attitude out of its head. Sorry for my little rant - it royally ticks me off.

My grandpa used to watch a lot of sports on TV before and you can definitely get this kind of vibe. When I watched gymnastics on TV during Olympics it's the same vibe I get -- that Team USA is the best. Even my relatives will say the US is the best and will only cheer for them. Its the way they are promoted on tv and you barely get any info on the other teams -- and if you do there are like negative things on them. It just so happened that I preferred watching the other teams and secretly cheered them on.

Luckily, we have the internet now and we can get various infos and opinions now compared to before when most rely on what is broadcasted on tv.

swan wrote:
unfortunately, i wonder if a majority of americans even know that michelle kwan is an american. asian-americans are stereotyped as "perpetual foreigners." michelle has all the qualities of a champion, including humility, but many americans don't want to accept her as an american.
This is really sad when we all know MK has countless times brought glory to the US and has contributed a lot not only to the sport.

zarinaballerina wrote:
swan wrote:

now, i'm not ready to call viktoria komova much of a champion herself. she has that "give up" attitude from time to time and just too many tears. politics or not involved during the all around final? i'll let you all decide for yourselves because it was so hotly debated.

I honestly wanted to reach through my TV and slap her. So you made a mistake, big deal, put it behind you and FIGHT!!! It's not easy to be her fan. LOL, who said there's no politics in AA? Just look at the result, it says it all.

My top pick in London was Vika ever since YOG. Can't help but cry with her after the AA competition and continue to cheer her on in her two other competitions. However, after the events, I can't help but feel like you. I wanted to shake her bad and say fight also. Aliya kept on competing and got herself a gold. That's the spirit! That's a champion! I'll keep on rooting for Vika, though, coz I like her a lot.

Champions, for me, exude that certain something when they go out there and compete. They have that command and confidence and you just see it in their eyes.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.casualdoodles.com
pearlyriver
Triple Axel
Triple Axel
avatar

Posts : 886
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Hanoi, Vietnam

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Sat Dec 22, 2012 11:58 am

[quote="roma"][quote="Alokya"]
Quote :


swan wrote:
unfortunately, i wonder if a majority of americans even know that michelle kwan is an american. asian-americans are stereotyped as "perpetual foreigners." michelle has all the qualities of a champion, including humility, but many americans don't want to accept her as an american.
This is really sad when we all know MK has countless times brought glory to the US and has contributed a lot not only to the sport.

zarinaballerina wrote:
swan wrote:

now, i'm not ready to call viktoria komova much of a champion herself. she has that "give up" attitude from time to time and just too many tears. politics or not involved during the all around final? i'll let you all decide for yourselves because it was so hotly debated.

I honestly wanted to reach through my TV and slap her. So you made a mistake, big deal, put it behind you and FIGHT!!! It's not easy to be her fan. LOL, who said there's no politics in AA? Just look at the result, it says it all.

My top pick in London was Vika ever since YOG. Can't help but cry with her after the AA competition and continue to cheer her on in her two other competitions. However, after the events, I can't help but feel like you. I wanted to shake her bad and say fight also. Aliya kept on competing and got herself a gold. That's the spirit! That's a champion! I'll keep on rooting for Vika, though, coz I like her a lot.

Champions, for me, exude that certain something when they go out there and compete. They have that command and confidence and you just see it in their eyes.

Swan, I wonder: Is Nastia Liukin considered a foreigner as well? She's a rare American gymnast that's well-loved by gymnast fans for her artistry and elegance. Of course her artistry comes from her Russian stock and being the daughter of two world champions in rhythmic gymnastics and artistic gymnastics. And why does she have a lot of hater? What has she done?
Aliya is just one of many Russian gymnasts that I like, but she really has that fighting spirit in her eyes which is so instantly recognizable.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
pearlyriver
Triple Axel
Triple Axel
avatar

Posts : 886
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Hanoi, Vietnam

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:06 pm

zarinaballerina wrote:

I agree with you about Catalina, she and Daniela Sofronie were my two favourites from 04 squad. The only problem I had with her was her ugly form on twists.

I adore Aliya, if she hadn't blown up her knee on vault, I think it's safe to say, that she'd be AA Olympic champion. She has everything, great skills, charisma, nerves of steel, IMO, she has that something special, that just captivates you. Everytime I see her on TV, I can't take my eyes off her, even when she's not competing. She's called a diva (in the best way possible) for a reason. Yep! As for Gabby, IMO, the true 2012 AA champion is Vika Komova, Gabby was gifted and Vika screwed.

I don't really get the debate about Catalina being robbed of a beam bronze and floor gold. At first, I agreed with them, but on repeated viewings, it's obvious that she had two major balance checks and her twisting forms are horrible. Even though I don't like Aly one bit, I think she deserves her two medals in both events.
As for Aliya, even her coach said that she could have a bit of an attitude. She's not an obedient girl, so a Russian federation official doesn't like her (from what I've heard). She's a queen like Khorkina (no offence, I don't mind queens if they deserve to be queens Razz ), but she's not as dramatic as Khorkina.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
pearlyriver
Triple Axel
Triple Axel
avatar

Posts : 886
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Hanoi, Vietnam

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:27 pm

swan wrote:


yes, catalina ponor is a real champion. i don't know what happened to her during the balance beam finals this year, but it was a pity. she usually hits and when she hits, the woman is ON FIRE. glad to know that she isn't retiring as of yet. she's considered a grandma competing at her age, but i believe she's become a much more beautiful gymnast since 2004. sure, her triple twist is something to cringe at, but i let it go. i hope she gets a gold on floor exercise next world championships to make up for the silver and medal on balance beam to make up for her fourth place finish.

now, i'm not ready to call viktoria komova much of a champion herself. she has that "give up" attitude from time to time and just too many tears. unfortunately, the russian team doesn't hire sports psychologists, so i don't know if her mental problems will ever go away. interestingly, though, the reference judges actually listed vika as the gold medalist ahead of gabby by almost three tenths. also, vika competed with a broken toe (this may be the explanation of her vault in the all around). politics or not involved during the all around final? i'll let you all decide for yourselves because it was so hotly debated.

aliya, on the other hand, is quite the champion indeed. she's fiery and determined, mentally strong, balances difficulty and artistry, and is humble all in one. plus, she's not afraid to show her pesonality from time to time (none of those safe, predictable, non-articulate type of interviews, though i get this vibe from most of the russian gymnasts). it's amazing how she almost quit the sport when her former coach (dina kamalova) suddenly left to coach in the united states (i think she left to work at WOGA, which is nastia's parents' gym). the gymnasts in russia differ very much from the american gymnasts because they usually don't just get new coaches or change gyms. but fortunately for her, she has alexandrov. her injury made her decline in certain aspects but i believe in many other ways she become a much more stronger gymnast. the fact that no other gymnast ever was able to perform at a competitive, elite level post acl-injury the way aliya did speaks volumes. and after the recent fiasco of alexandrov losing his position as head coach of the women's russian artistic gymnastics, i really wondered what aliya went through. her teammates writing off her coach, not knowing if she will be able to stay with him (it's uncertain if he will be able to continue coaching her). amazingly, she made comments such as "i will get past this." i can't wait to watch her compete in december!

anna pavlova probably has the saddest career in artist gymnastics ever. extremely beautiful, close to perfect gymnastics (the switch-ring should be named the pavlova-ring) but hideous consistency. she performed and trained the mustafina vault before mustafina but she only landed it once in competition (which was not a world championship or olympics so it wasn't named after her). she was robbed of an all around bronze medal in 2004. nobody can imitate her 2008 performance on the floor final and especially vault final. she single-handedly cost the russians the team bronze medal. afterwards, she never fully recovered her previous difficulty. countless times she could've medaled in so many events. because of this, she is blacklisted in the russian gymnastics federation and is unlikely to ever make the national team again. i, along many others, believe she should consider competing for another country because of the depth of the russian gymnasts. ukraine, france, germany, italy? if she wants to be adventurous, maybe even canada?

So Catalina is not retiring? I read on her Twitter account a few weeks after the Olympics and she said that she'd retire.
I noticed that Russian team is quite bad with consistency. They're always medal contender, but they often miss when they're expected to deliver. I love the Russian team at Sydney 2000 but that event was such a disaster.
I noticed that there was always a bald guy wearing glasses with the Russian team since as far as Athens 2004, and he was present in Beijing, London and other wolrd championship as well. Who's he?
As for Anna, if I remember correctly, two Russian girls fell off the beam in the team final, one of them is Anna. So she can't be blamed alone for Russia's 4th place.
I wonder if the judged has some grudge with Anna's mother, as I find her history of being underscored and screwed so systematic.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
pearlyriver
Triple Axel
Triple Axel
avatar

Posts : 886
Join date : 2012-03-31
Location : Hanoi, Vietnam

PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:31 pm

swan wrote:

there are honestly too many for me to choose from. Laughing to start? yang yilin totally should've won gold on uneven bars during the 2008 olympics. he kexin and nastia had the benefit of being more promoted. i would even argue that beth tweddle should've been on that podium over nastia. i know that many of you will say "but, the chinese were underage and were undeserving of their medals!" however, there was no concrete, solid proof of them being underage. citing questionable websites is not proof. how do we know they were even real websites? now, i'm not saying that they were or weren't underage. i'm just saying there was no direct proof. it was all just physical discrimination and poor sportsmanship from team usa. it's not like any of the other countries requested an age investigation on the chinese. plus, there were many other gymnasts who looked "underage" from other countries but since they were not medal threats, team usa didn't care for them to get investigated. i get accused of being underage all the time, even if i show legal american documents (u.s. military id, passport, you name it, i've been rudely accused and questioned) just because i look younger than my actual age. Evil or Very Mad

Yang Yilin is also my favorite gymnast from the Chinese team. I normally don't care much for Chinese gymnastics style but I really like her. Sadly she didn't compete at London and probably will retire soon because of the depth of the Chinese team.







Back to top Go down
View user profile
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: The quality of a champion   

Back to top Go down
 
The quality of a champion
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» For Sale: BLITZKRIEG high end quality rain gears!
» Commonwealth 100m champion preparing for big 2011
» Stahlwille's interpretation of warranty and quality
» avi dvir israel armwrestling champion 63kg biceps curls
» MP3 vs CD (lossless) Formats Quality

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Ballerina on Ice :: Miscellaneous :: General Chat-
Jump to: